mandag 20. februar 2017

Thoughts On The Current Meta


:: Introduction ::

I've made a couple of posts like this earlier and I intend to make this semi-regularly. With all the theme forces and new releases it's time for an update. My last "thoughts on the meta" post is from December and you can find it here.

While the theme forces are still fresh and not every gem has been found, the meta has shifted significantly, hence my inspiration for writing this blog post. There are more releases to come and we don't yet know how they'll impact the various factions. As always the meta is ever-changing, which is part of the reason why this game is so exciting!

Keep in mind that this is from a competitive point of view, obviously my opinion and compressed for the sake of my own sanity. Listing all permutations would take forever and provide little value, therefore I've deliberately omitted a couple of lists here and there.




:: Faction Ranking ::

S-tier: Cygnar, Mercenaries, Khador
A-tier: Circle, Protectorate, Legion, Skorne
B-tier: Retribution, Cryx, Convergence
C-tier: Trollbloods, Minions

Since last time Circle's lost their top spot. The emergence of various theme forces have made many factions more capable of better handling Wurmwood. Also, the Una2 nerf obviously hit hard. Mercenaries are part of the upper echelon because they have an amazingly strong list in Ossrum, Thexus is also catching up with people and Kingmaker's is still a thing. Khador have some amazingly strong builds in Harkevich and Vlad1, supported by a plethora of casters right behind them.

Legion jumped up a spot. Multiple legit releases, better equipped to handle the meta and an interesting theme list. I have also seen them win events since last time, ranging from small, local tournaments to CaptainCon. Skorne also look really solid now. The reason I consider these two below the top dogs is that they seem to have some glaring weaknesses, especially among the top dogs. The recent nerfs to Circle and Protectorate mean they also fall a bit behind with profound weaknesses among the top factions.

The next tier sees factions that have some-what fallen a bit behind. Cryx struggle with multiple other factions. Cygnar for example. Convergence have gotten better, they received an amazing theme force, but they still have big, big holes in their matchups. Retribution seem to just struggle more and more as the meta shifts away from their strengths. They can conceivably build lists to counter most things decently, but not all at once. Far from it. 

Lastly we have Trollbloods and Minions at the bottom. In my experience they just struggle with just about everything and it takes player skill to compensate for this. Rask used to push Minions up so much. However with the errata removing his throw-shenanigans -and- the meta preparing to fight stuff like Harkevich/Karchev ARM-skew and Amon in theme, I don't think his multi-heavy approach is viable any longer. This hurts Minions a lot. I seriously hope PP have some plans to buff the weaker factions in the game right now, the biggest issue as I see isn't that the strongest ones are too far ahead, it's that too many fall too far behind. I consider the balance among the top factions to be a lot better than among the bottom factions, hence this viewpoint.

Time for the sample lists!




:: Cygnar ::

(Haley2) Major Victoria Haley [+25], Storm Division,
- Thorn [13]
- Stormwall [39]
- Squire [0]
Storm Lances (max) [20]
Storm Lances (min) [12]
Journeyman Warcaster [0]
- Firefly [8]
Major Katherine Laddermore [8]

(Stryker 1) [Theme] Storm Division Commander Coleman Stryker [+30]
- Charger [9]
- Stormwall [39]
Storm Lances (max) [20]
Storm Lances (max) [20]
Journeyman Warcaster [0]
- Charger [9]
Captain Arlan Strangewayes [0]
Major Katherine Laddermore [8]

(Nemo3) Theme: Storm Division, Artificer General Nemo [+25]
- Storm Chaser Adept Caitlin Finch
- Squire [0]
- Firefly [8]
- Firefly [8]
- Firefly [8]
- Dynamo [18]
- Lancer [10]
Storm Lances (max) [20]
Storm Lances (min) [12]
Major Katherine Laddermore [8]
Journeyman Warcaster [0]
- Firefly [8]

I view Nemo3 as possibly one of our best casters now. Both he and Haley2 gained a lot from Storm Division, which in my opinion enable a lot more matchups. Stryker1 is a very, very legit caster now as well. I believe he can play both in Storm Division and Heavy Metal. Maddox looks interesting and even casters like Sloan and Darius can build some very interesting lists in Heavy Metal. Haley3 is still a strong caster but in my opinion she doesn't solve the current meta problems particularly well. 




:: Mercenaries ::

(Ossrum) General Ossrum [+28]
 - Grundback Gunner [6]
 - Grundback Gunner [6]
 - Grundback Gunner [6]
 - Grundback Gunner [6]
 - Grundback Gunner [6]
 - Grundback Gunner [6]
 - Grundback Blaster [6]
 - Grundback Blaster [6]
 - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4]
Horgenhold Forge Guard (max) [16]
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8]
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios [7]
Anastasia di Bray [3]
Kell Bailoch [5]
Horgenhold Artillery Corps [6]
Horgenhold Artillery Corps [6]

(Damiano) Captain Damiano [+28]
Theme: The Kingmaker's Army
 - Nomad [11]
 - Nomad [11]
 - Nomad [11]
 - Buccaneer [6]
Steelhead Halberdiers (max) [11]
Steelhead Halberdiers (max) [11]
Trencher Infantry (max) [16]
 - Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper [5]
 - Trencher Infantry Rifle Grenadier (3) [6]
Steelhead Heavy Cavalry (min) [11]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [0]
Stannis Brocker [0]
Kell Bailoch [0]
Raluk Moorclaw, the Ironmonger [4]

(Thexus) Theme: Operating Theater, Exulon Thexus - WJ: +29
- Wrecker - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14)
- Warden - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Warden - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5)
- Warden - PC: 10
Cephalyx Agitator - PC: 3
Cephalyx Agitator - PC: 3
Cephalyx Mind Bender & Drudges - Mind Bender & 9 Drudge Grunts: 11
Cephalyx Mind Bender & Drudges - Mind Bender & 9 Drudge Grunts: 11
Cephalyx Mind Bender & Drudges - Mind Bender & 9 Drudge Grunts: 11
Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges - Slaver & 9 Drudge Grunts: 12
Cephalyx Overlords - Leader & 2 Grunts: 0
Cephalyx Dominator - PC: 1
- Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8

Ossrum typically runs around with a couple of blasters now, to better handle anything from birds to Haley3. Apart from that not much has changed. Some people prefer heavies over Forge Guard with him. It's a matter of choice I guess, I don't know mercs well enough to say how it affects their matchups. Thexus is back in business. I've long thought of him as underrated and wondered why more people don't play him. Now he's beginning to see more action. Damiano is still very popular as well. What I've come to expect of Mercs is Ossrum with either of the two latter. 



:: Khador ::

(Vlad1) Theme: Winter Guard Kommand, Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28
- Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Marauder - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)
- Marauder - PC: 10
- Marauder - PC: 10
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 0
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 3 Grunts: 3

(Harkevich) Theme: Winter Guard Kommand, Kommander Harkevich, The Iron Wolf - WJ: +28
- Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
- Juggernaut - PC: 12
- Juggernaut - PC: 12
- Marauder - PC: 10
- Marauder - PC: 10
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4
Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 10
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0

Vlad1 gets a crazy combination of shooting and melee in theme, together with advanced move. Tons of benefits. He does give up Ruin, Reinholdt and Orin, but he gains so much. Harkevich is a great toolbox and probably Khador's strongest caster right now. In addition to these two I see Sorscha1, Butcher1 and Irusk2 to an extent. The thing about Khador is that they are overall very strong and they seem to be able to simply swap casters at a whim depending on where the "meta winds" are blowing.



:: Circle ::

(Wurmwood 1) Wurmwood, Tree of Fate [+27]
- Cassius the Oathkeeper
- Feral Warpwolf [18]
- Loki [19]
- Pureblood Warpwolf [17]
- Warpwolf Stalker [19]
Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
Shifting Stones [3]
Farrow Bone Grinders (min) [5]
Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Swamp Shamblers [11]


[Theme] The Wild Hunt
(Krueger 2) Krueger the Stormlord [+27]
- Feral Warpwolf [18]
- Pureblood Warpwolf [17]
- Woldwyrd [9]
- Woldwyrd [9]
Reeves of Orboros (max) [16]
Reeves of Orboros (max) [16]
Wolves of Orboros (max) [11]
- Wolves of Orboros Chieftain & Standard [0]
War Wolf [0]
War Wolf [2]
War Wolf [2]
Gallows Grove [2]

Circle has taken a bit of a turn lately. The nerf to Una2 is obviously huge. Is she still playable though? I don't know. Wurmwood seems like he suffers from sort of the same as Haley3: Inherently strong but doesn't really fit the meta. I still believe he is a top caster for Circle though and believe we should still expect to see him. Krueger2 is finally starting to see more play. He is a hard counter to Cygnar's Storm Division and I have long thought of him as underrated. His spell list is really good and he does a lot for Circle models. In addition to these I see anything from Morvahna2 to Baldur2 being played. Circle is still a little up in the air following the angry birds nerf. The lists above can possibly be improved upon (the Wurmwood list is just a rough draft of a variant better suited to take on heavy opponents), but they should still provide a good idea of what to expect I believe. 



:: Protectorate ::

(Amon 1) Theme: The Creator's Might, High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza [+29]
- Dervish [7]
- Dervish [7]
- Dervish [7]
- Dervish [7]
- Devout [9]
- Templar [15]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Hierophant [0]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
The Covenant of Menoth [0]
Vassal of Menoth [0]
Vassal Mechanik [1]
Vassal Mechanik [1]
Wrack [1]
Wrack [1]

The HR nerf took down Protectorate's best caster a few notches. I'm not sure where he landed, but Amon stands out as the auto-include choice now in my opinion. I've played the list above and seen it in action multiple times. It's really, really scary. I believe Severius2, High Reclaimer or Feora3 will be the most likely candidates to pair with him. Early days yet!





:: Legion ::

(Lylyth3) Lylyth, Reckoning of Everblight [+29]
 - Naga Nightlurker [8]
 - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11]
 - Succubus [4]
 - Typhon [24]
 - Carnivean [19]
 - Seraph [14]
Strider Scouts [9]
 - Strider Scout Officer & Musician [4]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
The Forsaken [4]
Ogrun Bokur [5]

(Vayl2) Vayl, Consul of Everblight [+28]
 - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11]
 - Seraph [14]
 - Typhon [24]
 - Raek [8]
 - Raek [8]
Blighted Nyss Raptors (max) [18]
Hellmouth [6]
Blackfrost Shard [9]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
The Forsaken [4]

(Absylonia2) Absylonia, Daughter of Everblight - WB: +28
-    Proteus - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19)
-    Raek - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
-    Raek - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 1)
-    Seraph - PC: 14
-    Shredder - PC: 4
-    Shredder - PC: 4
-    Carnivean - PC: 19
-    Carnivean - PC: 19
Spell Martyr - PC: 1
Spell Martyr - PC: 1
Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1
Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1
The Forsaken - PC: 4


In addition to these casters I see a lot of Fyanna2. She seems super strong. Thagrosh1 also feels legit. I hope to have a Fyanna list for the next iteration of the meta post!




:: Skorne ::

(Makeda 1) Archdomina Makeda [+29]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Legends of Halaak [8]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Tyrant Rhadeim [9]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Wrong Eye [17]
- Snapjaw
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]


I don't really know where Skorne has landed yet, or indeed if they have landed at all. I do know for a fact that Makeda1 feels extremely legit though. I hope that for my next iteration of the "meta post" I'll have more thoughts on this faction!




:: Retribution ::

(Issyria) Issyria, Sibyl of Dawn [+29]
 - Hyperion [36]
 - Phoenix [18]
Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber [4]
 - Discordia [18]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Dawnguard Invictors (max) [16]
 - Dawnguard Invictor Officer & Standard [4]
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4]

(Kaelyssa) Kaelyssa, the Night's Whisper [+29]
 - Hyperion [36]
Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber [4]
 - Discordia [18]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Dawnguard Sentinels (max) [18]
 - Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard [4]
Dawnguard Sentinels (max) [18]
 - Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard [4]

(Vyros2) Vyros, Incissar of the Dawnguard [+27]
 - Imperatus [22]
 - Griffon [8]
 - Griffon [8]
 - Griffon [8]
 - Griffon [8]
 - Griffon [8]
 - Griffon [8]
Dawnguard Sentinels (max) [18]
 - Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard [4]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4]

Rahn and Helynna seem to be quite popular as well, though meta-dependent. Kaelyssa variants with more shooting and Issyria variants with more melee exist as well. Vyros2 is fairly popular in theme with all-jacks as well. 



:: Cryx ::

(Deneghra1) Warwitch Deneghra [+28]
 - Nightwretch [7]
 - Nightwretch [7]
 - Barathrum [15]
Satyxis Raiders (max) [16]
 - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch [3]
Satyxis Gunslingers [7]
Satyxis Gunslingers [7]
Pistol Wraith [5]
Wrong Eye [17]
 - Snapjaw
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19]

(Coven) The Witch Coven of Garlghast [+26]
 - Egregore
 - Barathrum [15]
 - Deathjack [23]
 - Deathripper [6]
 - Skarlock Thrall [4]
Satyxis Raiders (max) [16]
 - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch [3]
Soulhunters (min) [11]
Soulhunters (min) [11]
Bane Warriors (min) [10]
Machine Wraith [2]

Coven and Deneghra1 make a pretty decent pair. Skarre1 is also a commonly seen Cryx caster. Cryx are somewhat rigid and their powerful builds are limited both in terms of caster and unit/warjack choices. This is their main weakness but they sort of make up for it by having a surprising amount of playable matchups against the top dogs. 



:: Convergence ::

(Lucant) Father Lucant, The Divinity Architect - WJ: +28
- Corollary - PC: 6
- Prime Axiom - PC: 38 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28)
- Inverter - PC: 15
Transfinite Emergence Projector - PC: 19
- Permutation Servitors
Transfinite Emergence Projector - PC: 19
- Permutation Servitors
Accretion Servitors - 3 Accretion Servitors: 2
Optifex Directive - Leader & 2 Grunts: 4

(Iron Mother) Iron Mother Directrix & Exponent Servitors +27
- Prime Axiom 38
- Assimilator 16
- Assimilator 16
- Assimilator 16
- Corollary 6
Attunement Servitors 4
Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex 2
Optifex Directive 4

Lucant is also very popular with heavy spam, leaving the Prime Axiom at home. With his new-found buff back to good old Deceleration I expect him to become a stronger caster by far. Axis is also somewhat popular still.



:: Minions ::

(Rask) Rask - WB: +27
- Targ - PC: 4
- Blackhide Wrastler - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
- Blackhide Wrastler - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
Wrong Eye - Wrong Eye & Snapjaw: 17
- Snapjaw
Dahlia Hallyr - Hallyr & Skarath: 17
- Skarath
Totem Hunter - PC: 6
Bog Trog Mist Speaker - PC: 4
Rorsh - Rorsh & Brine: 15
- Brine
- Battle Boar - PC: 7

Unfortunately I'm still lacking experience vs Minions. Arkadius, Carver and possibly Midas in Thornfall Alliance look interesting.



:: Trollbloods ::

[Theme] Band of Heroes
(Madrak 2) Madrak Ironhide, World Ender [+28]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]
- Fennblade Officer and Drummer [5]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]
- Fennblade Officer and Drummer [5]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
- Stone Scribe Elder [3]
Stone Scribe Chronicler [4]
Fell Caller Hero [5]
Kriel Warriors (max) [11]

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
 - Mulg the Ancient [19]
 - Dire Troll Mauler [15]
 - Troll Bouncer [9]
 - Troll Bouncer [9]
 - Troll Axer [10]
 - Pyre Troll [9]
 - Trollkin Runebearer [4]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9]
 - Stone Scribe Elder [3]
Feralgeist [2]
Feralgeist [2]

I don't know Trollbloods too well but this seems to be the two most popular ones. Doomie3, Horgle2 and Grim1 also look interesting. 


Keep in mind that this post is meant to be an overview, showing vanilla armies where possible. I've tried my best to select lists from tournament participation, preferably successful ones. If you have any input, please leave a reply in the comments below!

29 kommentarer:

  1. I've seen more fyanna2 than vayl2 this year. Thags1 lists have grown in popularity. Twins won Capticon

    SvarSlett
    Svar
    1. Thanks for the feedback! Legion's a little "European Coloured". I think Fyanna2 should be gaining in popularity here soon. She seems super legit :) Twins feels like it's more about the player than the caster in my opinion. Would you agree?

      Slett
    2. Denne kommentaren har blitt fjernet av forfatteren.

      Slett
    3. Personally I think the Twins are a legitimately good Warlock. Their strengths are just relatively niche and meta dependent. The Twins are sort of like a more attrition focused version of Vayl2 in the sense that they bring many of the same tools (Occultation, Defense debuff, limited anti-magic, threat extenders in the form of Slipstream + Boundless Charge/Onslaught) but have an expendable suicide missile in the form of Rhyas who can be traded for heavies or to get ahead early on scenario.

      Slett
    4. It's a very interesting warlock and I hope we see more of them :) What parts of the meta are holding the Twins back?

      Slett
    5. Honestly, Cygnar. Electro-leaps are really bad for Legion right now and there seem to be no end of them in every Cygnar match up.

      Slett
    6. I don't think Twins are necessarily what you want to drop into Cygnar.

      Slett
  2. I don't feel that the style list that was ran at capticon could be run by any other legion warlock with as much success. I feel it's not just the player. A lot of players focus in too much on what's good now instead of what can be made/created to fight the meta now. Even now I am making new lists for adepticon that are not the normal lylyth3 etc to fight the next meta wave. You stay ahead by preparing to make new combos and test them out for effectiveness.

    SvarSlett
  3. Thanks for compiling some top lists! Now I have some direction on what models to familiarize myself with.

    SvarSlett
  4. You sure people still run Madrak2? I don't know. Also, that Ragnor list has not taken into account the point increase for Lanyssa so it's not a legal list. And with that build there is no reason to not go theme force.

    SvarSlett
    Svar
    1. Maybe not. Trolls are a little outdated indeed. Being at the bottom of food chain they are not what I worry the most about. I'll get the Ragnor list legal though!

      Slett
  5. Looks like my ragnor list from WTC, and now PoW is out your probably better playing it in theme. I agree with your rankings and thoughts thought Jarle. I would also add Doomie3 to the list as lots of people are looking at him. Calandra in a psuedo EE could also be strong currently.

    SvarSlett
  6. Ok, Trollbloods list updated now. Should better reflect 2017 Q1 ;)

    SvarSlett
  7. This assessment is complete and utter garbage. You have no idea what you're talking about. Stop giving people inaccurate information.

    SvarSlett
    Svar
    1. 2/10 trollscore! 4/10 would troll again!

      Slett
  8. As a ret player, I have a few comments:

    1)Double sentinels: this is always a toss-up between kaelyssa, helynna, rahn and vyros2. In my eyes the helynna version is just back breaking. The extra 3 armour on feat turn makes such an astronomical difference that the maths just goes completely crazy. I would even feel pretty comfortable dropping it into your nemo3 list. My particular version also has 2x sphinxes and imperatus as battlegroup.

    2) Helios. He is the new meta-bending ret model, be prepared for him.

    3) My current kaelyssa list (kae is bae) seems to be picking up a lot of traction among players so I'm hoping it will start appearing more and more:

    kaelyssa
    -helios
    Elara
    -discordia
    AFG
    Electromancers
    Heavy rifle team
    Heavy rifle team
    Fane knight skeryth
    Mage hunter assassin
    2x arcanist

    If you have local ret players get them to try it out, its a lot of fun!

    Enjoyed the article, great work!

    @chris cuntingham: stop being a twat, i havent seen you winning any european championships so you can go and enjoy a bowl of dicks as far as i am concerned. Either say something constructive or take a hike.

    SvarSlett
    Svar
    1. Thanks for the input! I hope Ret makes a comeback :) I don't believe in Helynna vs Nemo though. You have a big problem with threat ranges. More specifically, you don't have any. Nemo can just wait it out. Where do you play?

      Slett
    2. I play in The Netherlands, Rotterdam specifically. You should come down for the NL masters in march :D

      Slett
    3. I would have wanted to but real life demands some #priorities. I will go to the Netherlands in November for ClogCon :)

      Slett
    4. That sounds great, I'll make sure to come this year then!

      BTW there is another variant of the vyros2 theme list that includes helios, imperatus and 5 griffons I believe which a lot of people argue is more powerful than the current one.

      P.S. I still personally think ret is an A faction (I'll take A- haha) but that's just me. And cryx not being in the bottom tier suprised me a little too (which is saying a lot seeing as I have mainly played cryx, was sad to give them up thanks to Mk3 nerfs)

      Slett
  9. Any thoughts on Kaya3?

    SvarSlett
    Svar
    1. Yes, I think she is bad and not worth looking into. She has no threat range extenders and I don't think her defensive tech is strong enough. She effectively builds for a grind fest but I think she just loses into the other grinders out there.

      Slett
  10. Interesting List, not sure I agree completely but that may have to do with perspective.
    For me this would change:
    Legion -1
    Protectorate +1
    Convergence +1

    Again just subjective. Khador is indeed very deep. Skorne is very unclear, probably +1 as well.
    Ret indeed feels meh atm. Convergence can be pretty strong as well as Protectorate.

    SvarSlett
    Svar
    1. I'd say we're pretty much aligned if that's all the changes you would make :) After all I think the differences between the tiers here are rather small for a miniature game. Indeed I expect an experienced Trollbloods or Minions player to give me a challenging game even if I field my most optimal and play-tested Cygnar lists :)

      Slett
  11. One thing I noticed this SmogCon was lots of Khador with Manowar Shock Troopers. They seemed really like a staple brick for attrition.

    SvarSlett
    Svar
    1. Neither Khador present performed well though, did they? I'm not a fan of Shock Troopers, too slow.

      Slett